Differences
This shows you the differences between two versions of the page.
| Both sides previous revisionPrevious revisionNext revision | Previous revision | ||
| techtalk:ih:engctl01 [2021/04/28 00:34] – [Setting Ignition Timing] ixl2relax | techtalk:ih:engctl01 [2025/07/28 22:58] (current) – [Nosecone Ignition Seal] hippysmack | ||
|---|---|---|---|
| Line 14: | Line 14: | ||
| * . . . [[techtalk: | * . . . [[techtalk: | ||
| - | 57-78 Sportsters (except XLC and XLCH) | + | 57-78 Sportsters (except |
| * The circuit breaker ignition system has two circuits; (1)-the primary and (2)-the secondary circuits. ((1959-1964 Sportster 55 OHV FSM pg 5F-1)) | * The circuit breaker ignition system has two circuits; (1)-the primary and (2)-the secondary circuits. ((1959-1964 Sportster 55 OHV FSM pg 5F-1)) | ||
| Line 23: | Line 23: | ||
| **PRECAUTION: | **PRECAUTION: | ||
| - | + | ||
| + | {{: | ||
| + | |||
| + | (Aftermarket Points/ | ||
| + | |||
| + | \\ | ||
| ===== Magneto Ignition System ===== | ===== Magneto Ignition System ===== | ||
| * . . . [[techtalk: | * . . . [[techtalk: | ||
| Line 29: | Line 35: | ||
| (58-59 XLC and 58-69 XLCH) ((1952-1959 HD Spare Parts Catalog for all Sportster and K Models pg 19)) ((1960-1970 HD Sportster Parts Catalog pg 18)) \\ | (58-59 XLC and 58-69 XLCH) ((1952-1959 HD Spare Parts Catalog for all Sportster and K Models pg 19)) ((1960-1970 HD Sportster Parts Catalog pg 18)) \\ | ||
| The magneto produces a high voltage discharge to the spark plug which is timed to each cylinder' | The magneto produces a high voltage discharge to the spark plug which is timed to each cylinder' | ||
| - | It also eliminated the need for a battery for ignition. ((doodah man of the XLFORUM | + | It also eliminated the need for a battery for ignition. ((doodah man of the XLFORUM |
| * Components include a single induction coil, a rotating magnet (rotor), a condenser, a circuit breaker and a circuit breaker cam. ((1959-1964 HD Sportster 55 OHV FSM pg 5F-13)) | * Components include a single induction coil, a rotating magnet (rotor), a condenser, a circuit breaker and a circuit breaker cam. ((1959-1964 HD Sportster 55 OHV FSM pg 5F-13)) | ||
| Line 42: | Line 48: | ||
| **(1979)** Upgrade to the breaker point system in which the mechanical points are replaced by a breaker-less electronic ignition on the camshaft. Timer has a rotor with one small lobe and one large lobe and a sensor that sends signal to the control module on the back of the timer inner cover. Rotor is mounted on a mechanical flywheel centrifugal advance like a point cam would be in a breaker point system. The rotor' | **(1979)** Upgrade to the breaker point system in which the mechanical points are replaced by a breaker-less electronic ignition on the camshaft. Timer has a rotor with one small lobe and one large lobe and a sensor that sends signal to the control module on the back of the timer inner cover. Rotor is mounted on a mechanical flywheel centrifugal advance like a point cam would be in a breaker point system. The rotor' | ||
| + | |||
| ===== Magnavox Electronic Ignition Systems ===== | ===== Magnavox Electronic Ignition Systems ===== | ||
| Line 84: | Line 91: | ||
| * The low vacuum curve (retarded spark) minimizes spark knock, while maintaining performance under high load conditions. | * The low vacuum curve (retarded spark) minimizes spark knock, while maintaining performance under high load conditions. | ||
| + | ===== Spark Coil ===== | ||
| + | **Coil Spec for Points Ignition** | ||
| + | * Resistances on a Points-based Ignition Coil should be: | ||
| + | * Primary: 4.7-5.5 Ohms | ||
| + | * Secondary: 16, | ||
| - | ===== Coil ===== | ||
| **Coil Mix-up on 1973-1974 Models** | **Coil Mix-up on 1973-1974 Models** | ||
| Line 95: | Line 106: | ||
| **Failed Coils on 1980 Models** | **Failed Coils on 1980 Models** | ||
| - | * A quantity of ignition coils (31609-80) used on all 1980 models, failed at low mileage. The problem was an internal breakdown of the windings within the coil. This is a failure that could lead to poor vehicle performance and a possible fouled spark plug. ((HD Service Bulletin #M-793 dated July 3, 1980)) | + | * A quantity of ignition coils (31609-80) used on all 1980 models |
| * Upon inspection of an ignition related failure, follow the diagnostic procedure outlined in the service manual. Inspect the primary and secondary coil resistance with an ohmmeter. | * Upon inspection of an ignition related failure, follow the diagnostic procedure outlined in the service manual. Inspect the primary and secondary coil resistance with an ohmmeter. | ||
| - | * Resistances should be: | + | * Resistances |
| * Primary: 3.3-3.7 Ohms | * Primary: 3.3-3.7 Ohms | ||
| * Secondary: 16500-19500 Ohms | * Secondary: 16500-19500 Ohms | ||
| Line 120: | Line 131: | ||
| |1979 ((1979-1985 HD Sportster Parts Catalog pg 7-1)) \\ Presolite electronic ign|HD 4 → \\ HD 4R5 - resister type → |.060" \\ .038" | |1979 ((1979-1985 HD Sportster Parts Catalog pg 7-1)) \\ Presolite electronic ign|HD 4 → \\ HD 4R5 - resister type → |.060" \\ .038" | ||
| |1980-1985 ((1979-1985 HD Sportster Parts Catalog pg 7-1)) \\ Magnavox electronic ign|HD 4-5 → \\ HD 4R5 - resistor type → |.038" | |1980-1985 ((1979-1985 HD Sportster Parts Catalog pg 7-1)) \\ Magnavox electronic ign|HD 4-5 → \\ HD 4R5 - resistor type → |.038" | ||
| - | |||
| \\ | \\ | ||
| Line 127: | Line 137: | ||
| ===== Sub-Documents ===== | ===== Sub-Documents ===== | ||
| * . . . [[techtalk: | * . . . [[techtalk: | ||
| - | |||
| ===== Ignition Timing and Related Specs ===== | ===== Ignition Timing and Related Specs ===== | ||
| - | * Ignition timing is when the spark takes place - specifically as the piston is traveling UP on the COMPRESSION stroke (compressing the gasses so that you get the most out of the explosion/ | + | * Ignition timing is when the spark takes place - specifically as the piston is traveling UP on the COMPRESSION stroke (compressing the gasses so that you get the most out of the explosion/ |
| - | * Top Dead Center is when the piston is at the VERY top of its travel, in the center of it's dwell area, and is usually referenced to mean on TDC of the COMPRESSION stroke (with the valves closed and the mixture compressed), | + | * Top Dead Center is when the piston is at the VERY top of its travel, in the center of it's dwell area, and is usually referenced to mean on TDC of the COMPRESSION stroke (with the valves closed and the mixture compressed), |
| - | * Spark ADVANCE - is how soon, BEFORE the piston reaches top dead center (or how late - AFTER top dead center) that the spark plug fires to start burning the mixture. The faster the motor is turning, the sooner you need to start the ignition (more advanced it needs to be) so that power of the expanding gasses starts pushing on that piston as soon as it starts moving downward and pushes as long as will be beneficial. ((Moved On / My Own Choice | + | * Spark ADVANCE - is how soon, BEFORE the piston reaches top dead center (or how late - AFTER top dead center) that the spark plug fires to start burning the mixture. The faster the motor is turning, the sooner you need to start the ignition (more advanced it needs to be) so that power of the expanding gasses starts pushing on that piston as soon as it starts moving downward and pushes as long as will be beneficial. ((Moved On / My Own Choice |
| - | * Ignite it too soon, and the gasses start pushing down as the piston is still coming up (spark knock, pinging etc). ((Moved On / My Own Choice | + | * Ignite it too soon, and the gasses start pushing down as the piston is still coming up (spark knock, pinging etc). ((Moved On / My Own Choice |
| - | * Ignite it too late, and you loose a lot of the power of the gases, since the piston will reach bottom before the gasses finish expanding. ((Moved On / My Own Choice | + | * Ignite it too late, and you loose a lot of the power of the gases, since the piston will reach bottom before the gasses finish expanding. ((Moved On / My Own Choice |
| ==== Timing Advance ==== | ==== Timing Advance ==== | ||
| ^ ^Ign. Retard ((57-69 HD Sportster FSM pg 3A-11)) ((70-78 HD Sportster FSM pg 3-1)) ((79-85 HD Sportster FSM pg 3-3))^Ign. Advance^ | ^ ^Ign. Retard ((57-69 HD Sportster FSM pg 3A-11)) ((70-78 HD Sportster FSM pg 3-1)) ((79-85 HD Sportster FSM pg 3-3))^Ign. Advance^ | ||
| - | |**57-70**|15° (5/ | + | |**57-71**|15° (5/ |
| - | |**71-79**|10° (1/32”) BTDC)|40° (17/32” BTDC)| | + | |**72-79**|10° (1/32”) BTDC)|40° (17/32” BTDC)| |
| |Using Mechanical Advance mechanism = 30° range||| | |Using Mechanical Advance mechanism = 30° range||| | ||
| |Static Timing is set with Flywheel at Full Advance Mark||| | |Static Timing is set with Flywheel at Full Advance Mark||| | ||
| Line 146: | Line 155: | ||
| |**80-82**|8° (BTDC)|26° BTDC - (600-1600 RPM)|40° BTDC) - (above 1600 RPM)| | |**80-82**|8° (BTDC)|26° BTDC - (600-1600 RPM)|40° BTDC) - (above 1600 RPM)| | ||
| ^ ^Startup Advance^Fast Idle Advance^1800-2800 RPM ((79-85 Sportster FSM pg 3-3))^ | ^ ^Startup Advance^Fast Idle Advance^1800-2800 RPM ((79-85 Sportster FSM pg 3-3))^ | ||
| - | |**83-85**|10° (before TDC)|40° (before TDC)|55° (before TDC)| | + | |**83-85**|10° (BTDC)|40° (BTDC)|55° (BTDC)| |
| |Using Electronic Module (computerized) allows calculating a wide range of advance spark timing|||| | |Using Electronic Module (computerized) allows calculating a wide range of advance spark timing|||| | ||
| |Static Timing is set with Flywheel at TDC Mark - Used as a reference to calculate needed advance|||| | |Static Timing is set with Flywheel at TDC Mark - Used as a reference to calculate needed advance|||| | ||
| + | |||
| ==== Points Gap and Trigger Sensor Gap ==== | ==== Points Gap and Trigger Sensor Gap ==== | ||
| Line 180: | Line 190: | ||
| **The timing marks on the flywheel are NOT used for timing the cams**. \\ | **The timing marks on the flywheel are NOT used for timing the cams**. \\ | ||
| Below are the timing marks on factory built engines. \\ | Below are the timing marks on factory built engines. \\ | ||
| - | **However, don't trust any timing marks on flywheels till you have physically confirmed that (TDC.. is indeed TDC).** ((fdny37 of the XLFORUM | + | **However, don't trust any timing marks on flywheels till you have physically confirmed that (TDC.. is indeed TDC).** ((fdny37 of the XLFORUM |
| Over the course of the last 30, 40 and even 50 plus years, these engines could have had multiple makeovers by previous owners. \\ | Over the course of the last 30, 40 and even 50 plus years, these engines could have had multiple makeovers by previous owners. \\ | ||
| Numerous modifications to the flywheels have been done or even been replaced with aftermarket wheels. \\ | Numerous modifications to the flywheels have been done or even been replaced with aftermarket wheels. \\ | ||
| Line 186: | Line 196: | ||
| **' | **' | ||
| - | * 57-70 Sportster engines: ((Dr Dick of the XLFORUM | + | * 57-70 Sportster engines: ((Dr Dick of the XLFORUM |
| * The single straight line is 45° BTDC front cylinder (factory advanced ignition timing setting). | * The single straight line is 45° BTDC front cylinder (factory advanced ignition timing setting). | ||
| * The double straight lines are 15° BTDC front cylinder (used to set retarded kick start timing). | * The double straight lines are 15° BTDC front cylinder (used to set retarded kick start timing). | ||
| Line 202: | Line 212: | ||
| **57-E80 flywheel marks**: \\ | **57-E80 flywheel marks**: \\ | ||
| - | {{: | + | {{: |
| **L80-85 flywheel marks**: \\ | **L80-85 flywheel marks**: \\ | ||
| - | {{: | + | {{: |
| ===== Setting Ignition Timing ===== | ===== Setting Ignition Timing ===== | ||
| Line 222: | Line 231: | ||
| **Preparing the timing mark for using a timing light**: \\ | **Preparing the timing mark for using a timing light**: \\ | ||
| - | Clean the timing mark on the flywheel and apply a paint color that will stand out when viewing it with a timing light. ((DirtyCory of the XLFORUM | + | Clean the timing mark on the flywheel and apply a paint color that will stand out when viewing it with a timing light. ((DirtyCory of the XLFORUM |
| You can spray some brake cleaner on a Q-tip to clean the timing mark. \\ | You can spray some brake cleaner on a Q-tip to clean the timing mark. \\ | ||
| Paint the timing mark with bright pink fingernail polish (or something florescent). \\ | Paint the timing mark with bright pink fingernail polish (or something florescent). \\ | ||
| Line 234: | Line 243: | ||
| For 1983-later, the OEM Timing Rotor is 32402-83 (Gold color). This later version is usually also used for aftermarket nosecone electronic ignitions installed in Ironhead models. | For 1983-later, the OEM Timing Rotor is 32402-83 (Gold color). This later version is usually also used for aftermarket nosecone electronic ignitions installed in Ironhead models. | ||
| - | | Example of timing cup window positions per piston positions. (Crane HI-4 on 73 model) ((photos by vivisix of the XLFORUM, labeled by Hippysmack, | + | | Example of timing cup window positions per piston positions. (Crane HI-4 on 73 model) ((photos by vivisix of the XLFORUM, labeled by Hippysmack, |
| |{{: | |{{: | ||
| - | |||
| \\ | \\ | ||
| Line 243: | Line 251: | ||
| * Only a small amount of Hi-Temp grease is recommended for proper lubrication of the cam surface, camshaft, advance weight pins and underneath the advance weights. Too much grease may melt away during service (Over lubrication can cause grease to migrate between the point contacts causing burning). See your FSM for proper assembly guidelines. | * Only a small amount of Hi-Temp grease is recommended for proper lubrication of the cam surface, camshaft, advance weight pins and underneath the advance weights. Too much grease may melt away during service (Over lubrication can cause grease to migrate between the point contacts causing burning). See your FSM for proper assembly guidelines. | ||
| * Ignition advance lubrication change in 1976: Due to normal engine combustion and friction, high temps may be present in the timer compartment and timer components. These high temps could partially dehydrate the installed grease and cause stiffening or gumminess, especially at the pivot pins and timer shaft. Normal operation keeps the assembly free but timer adjustments are more difficult. Since August, on all production engines, the timer weight assemblies and breaker cam posts have been sprayed with " | * Ignition advance lubrication change in 1976: Due to normal engine combustion and friction, high temps may be present in the timer compartment and timer components. These high temps could partially dehydrate the installed grease and cause stiffening or gumminess, especially at the pivot pins and timer shaft. Normal operation keeps the assembly free but timer adjustments are more difficult. Since August, on all production engines, the timer weight assemblies and breaker cam posts have been sprayed with " | ||
| - | |||
| - | |||
| \\ | \\ | ||
| [[: | [[: | ||
