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| techtalk:ih:oil03g [2021/02/23 04:54] – [Leaking Around Oil Pressure Switch Connection] hippysmack | techtalk:ih:oil03g [2024/09/26 20:39] (current) – [Idler Shaft Removal] hippysmack | ||
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| ====== Leaking Around Oil Pressure Switch Connection====== | ====== Leaking Around Oil Pressure Switch Connection====== | ||
| + | The threading for the pressure switch nipple is not a tapered pipe thread. ((needspeed of the XLFORUM https:// | ||
| + | It's a 15/ | ||
| + | Cracked pumps are actually common. It's easy to over tighten the switch fitting. \\ | ||
| + | You're tightening a steel fitting that has a less than 1/2" thread into aluminum with a large 1" wrench. \\ | ||
| + | It's not the thread that seals the oil, it's the flat surface of the pump body against the flat surface of the fitting that does that. \\ | ||
| + | It only needs to be snug. | ||
| - | If you have a leak from the oil pressure switch nipple area, 99% of the time it is a cracked body. ((Dr Dick of the XLFORUM | + | If you have a leak from the oil pressure switch nipple area, 99% of the time it is a cracked body. ((Dr Dick of the XLFORUM |
| Pull the 1" hex nut and look for a crack on the flat face of the body at 6:00. \\ | Pull the 1" hex nut and look for a crack on the flat face of the body at 6:00. \\ | ||
| The crack will pass from the center hole, thru the small hole to outside of the body. \\ | The crack will pass from the center hole, thru the small hole to outside of the body. \\ | ||
| - | {{: | + | {{: |
| ====== Fixing Leaky Pump from Sit Sumping ====== | ====== Fixing Leaky Pump from Sit Sumping ====== | ||
| - | Oil getting into the crankcase from the act of the bike just sitting still is a common occurrence. ((Dr Dick of the XLFORUM | + | Oil getting into the crankcase from the act of the bike just sitting still is a common occurrence. ((Dr Dick of the XLFORUM |
| It is commonly blamed on the oil pump check valve (ball) allowing oil from the oil tank to seep past it and flood the engine. \\ | It is commonly blamed on the oil pump check valve (ball) allowing oil from the oil tank to seep past it and flood the engine. \\ | ||
| But it can also be coming in from the clearances of the gears as well as from the shaft seal between the feed and return gears. \\ | But it can also be coming in from the clearances of the gears as well as from the shaft seal between the feed and return gears. \\ | ||
| - | ==== Testing the oil pump for leaks ==== | + | ===== Testing the oil pump for leaks ===== |
| You could apply oil via the oil tank to the inlet nipple on an installed pump and observe if oil is leaking through the check into the discharge hole to the engine. \\ | You could apply oil via the oil tank to the inlet nipple on an installed pump and observe if oil is leaking through the check into the discharge hole to the engine. \\ | ||
| There is no reason to take anything but the front fitting of the pump off. \\ | There is no reason to take anything but the front fitting of the pump off. \\ | ||
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| No oil in catch can now = a good check valve (ball). \\ | No oil in catch can now = a good check valve (ball). \\ | ||
| - | Another way to check the system would be to remove the pump, dis-assemble it and blank it off. ((bustert of the XLFORUM | + | Another way to check the system would be to remove the pump, dis-assemble it and blank it off. ((bustert of the XLFORUM |
| Then you could pull a vacuum from the inlet nipple to see it the system is functional. \\ | Then you could pull a vacuum from the inlet nipple to see it the system is functional. \\ | ||
| You could apply oil via a container to the nipple on a ready, install the pump and observe. \\ | You could apply oil via a container to the nipple on a ready, install the pump and observe. \\ | ||
| Then you can see if oil is leaking through the discharge hole to the engine or out the return to tank hole. \\ | Then you can see if oil is leaking through the discharge hole to the engine or out the return to tank hole. \\ | ||
| This would indicate ball or shaft. Just add oil until it leaks, easy to calculate hydrostatic head to know at what pressure it will leak at. \\ | This would indicate ball or shaft. Just add oil until it leaks, easy to calculate hydrostatic head to know at what pressure it will leak at. \\ | ||
| + | It is better to know the problem than to throw money at it. \\ | ||
| - | It is better to know the problem than to throw money at it. \\ | ||
| ===== Check Ball Seat Repair ===== | ===== Check Ball Seat Repair ===== | ||
| - | + | When it comes to a ' | |
| - | When it comes to a ' | + | |
| On the human side: \\ | On the human side: \\ | ||
| The drive to better the way something works stands on its own and it does bring rewards (usually thru a string of failures). \\ | The drive to better the way something works stands on its own and it does bring rewards (usually thru a string of failures). \\ | ||
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| Over time, the ball will actually touch the shoulder and not seal on the bevel. \\ | Over time, the ball will actually touch the shoulder and not seal on the bevel. \\ | ||
| A little indigo paste on the ball will tell if this is happening. \\ | A little indigo paste on the ball will tell if this is happening. \\ | ||
| - | |||
| **The tapping method**: \\ | **The tapping method**: \\ | ||
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| A small particle of foreign matter lodged on the valve (ball) seat will prevent the check valve ball from seating. \\ | A small particle of foreign matter lodged on the valve (ball) seat will prevent the check valve ball from seating. \\ | ||
| If the seat is only slightly damaged, place a new ball on the seat and use a drift against the ball and to lightly tap against the seat. \\ | If the seat is only slightly damaged, place a new ball on the seat and use a drift against the ball and to lightly tap against the seat. \\ | ||
| - | Then install a new spring along with the new ball. ((piniongear of the XLFORUM | + | Then install a new spring along with the new ball. ((piniongear of the XLFORUM |
| Basically, just stick the ball in the hole, push it tight against the seat with a drift and then give it a few light whacks with a small hammer. \\ | Basically, just stick the ball in the hole, push it tight against the seat with a drift and then give it a few light whacks with a small hammer. \\ | ||
| - | The aluminum housing is not as fragile as it would seem. Just do not use an 8 pound hammer. ((bustert of the XLFORUM | + | The aluminum housing is not as fragile as it would seem. Just do not use an 8 pound hammer. ((bustert of the XLFORUM |
| This will remove small slight striation marks or pits. \\ | This will remove small slight striation marks or pits. \\ | ||
| It also says to replace the pump body if the valve seat badly damaged. \\ | It also says to replace the pump body if the valve seat badly damaged. \\ | ||
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| **The lapping method**: \\ | **The lapping method**: \\ | ||
| The seat can be lapped with a clean bead blasted Evo pushrod end (it’s the same size as | The seat can be lapped with a clean bead blasted Evo pushrod end (it’s the same size as | ||
| - | the check ball). ((gungatim of the XLFORUM | + | the check ball). ((gungatim of the XLFORUM |
| Basically you are reconditioning the seat where the ball sits so it creates a good seal around the ball. \\ | Basically you are reconditioning the seat where the ball sits so it creates a good seal around the ball. \\ | ||
| - | The tool on the left is a homemade check ball lapping tool used to lap the seat where the check ball sits in the oil pump (57-76). ((Toolmaker of the XLFORUM | + | The tool on the left is a homemade check ball lapping tool used to lap the seat where the check ball sits in the oil pump (57-76). ((Toolmaker of the XLFORUM |
| It's made with a tool steel shank and a 3/8" carbide ball tip on the end. \\ | It's made with a tool steel shank and a 3/8" carbide ball tip on the end. \\ | ||
| The pocket for the ball to sit was cut with a 3/8" ball end mill then a few drops of Loctite 404 to keep it there. \\ | The pocket for the ball to sit was cut with a 3/8" ball end mill then a few drops of Loctite 404 to keep it there. \\ | ||
| - | This is used as a traditional lapping tool would be. But it's not the best idea to use lapping compound in there. ((Hopper of the XLFORUM | + | This is used as a traditional lapping tool would be. But it's not the best idea to use lapping compound in there. ((Hopper of the XLFORUM |
| Particles of the very hard lapping compound will become embedded in the soft aluminum and stay there to grind up the ball in service. \\ | Particles of the very hard lapping compound will become embedded in the soft aluminum and stay there to grind up the ball in service. \\ | ||
| Not to mention they can then come loose and circulate through your bearings. \\ | Not to mention they can then come loose and circulate through your bearings. \\ | ||
| |{{: | |{{: | ||
| - | | Homemade check ball lapping tool ((photo by Toolmaker of the XLFORUM | + | | Homemade check ball lapping tool ((photo by Toolmaker of the XLFORUM |
| **The burnishing method**: \\ | **The burnishing method**: \\ | ||
| - | The tool below is a check-ball seat burnishing set. ((DaWind of the XLFORUM | + | The tool below is a check-ball seat burnishing set. ((DaWind of the XLFORUM |
| The idea is to turn the ball into the seat several times, thereby smoothing it to a very fine finish. \\ | The idea is to turn the ball into the seat several times, thereby smoothing it to a very fine finish. \\ | ||
| It works quite well with these old check valve seats, but you can and do use quite a bit of force with the cast iron for a good result. \\ | It works quite well with these old check valve seats, but you can and do use quite a bit of force with the cast iron for a good result. \\ | ||
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| |{{: | |{{: | ||
| - | | Check-ball seat burnishing set ((photo by DaWind of the XLFORUM | + | | Check-ball seat burnishing set ((photo by DaWind of the XLFORUM |
| **Centering the ball to the seat**: \\ | **Centering the ball to the seat**: \\ | ||
| This was an attempt at keeping the ball centered, with a machined bolt. The very early oil pump's had a pin attached to the ball. \\ | This was an attempt at keeping the ball centered, with a machined bolt. The very early oil pump's had a pin attached to the ball. \\ | ||
| - | The information below is an extension of this video by bustert [[https:// | + | The information below is an extension of this video by bustert [[https:// |
| The spring and really does not home in on the ball, putting side loading on it and therefore not putting full force of the spring directly on top of the seat. \\ | The spring and really does not home in on the ball, putting side loading on it and therefore not putting full force of the spring directly on top of the seat. \\ | ||
| - | {{: | + | {{: |
| The second pic below is the homemade cup to fit into the hole. \\ | The second pic below is the homemade cup to fit into the hole. \\ | ||
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| The extension is 1/32" to 1/16" above the opening. \\ | The extension is 1/32" to 1/16" above the opening. \\ | ||
| - | {{: | + | {{: |
| **Cutting a spring seat in the check ball**: \\ | **Cutting a spring seat in the check ball**: \\ | ||
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| Since the ball is basically captured, the seat sides should conform to each other in short order. \\ | Since the ball is basically captured, the seat sides should conform to each other in short order. \\ | ||
| - | {{: | + | {{: |
| **Spring pressure**: \\ | **Spring pressure**: \\ | ||
| - | The stock 1974 sportster spring has a collapse rate of 2.5 pounds. The difference between the cup hole of .220" and the original pump hole of .312" is .092". ((bustert of the XLFORUM | + | The stock 1974 sportster spring has a collapse rate of 2.5 pounds. The difference between the cup hole of .220" and the original pump hole of .312" is .092". ((bustert of the XLFORUM |
| Now that sounds like a lot. \\ | Now that sounds like a lot. \\ | ||
| But run the sizes at a given psi through an orifice flow calculator and you will see there isn’t that much difference, especially at lower pressures. \\ | But run the sizes at a given psi through an orifice flow calculator and you will see there isn’t that much difference, especially at lower pressures. \\ | ||
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| Now if you have a crappy high clearance pump with a lot of slip, the pump needs replacing. \\ | Now if you have a crappy high clearance pump with a lot of slip, the pump needs replacing. \\ | ||
| - | + | ===== Breather Gear Shaft Mod ===== | |
| - | ===== Shaft Seal Repair | + | The leaking check ball is the most popular theory out there. ((XLFREAK of the XLFORUM |
| - | The leaking check ball is the most popular theory out there. ((XLFREAK of the XLFORUM | + | |
| However, the check ball can be perfectly good and the bike will still wet sump. \\ | However, the check ball can be perfectly good and the bike will still wet sump. \\ | ||
| The oil can go right up the pump shaft directly into the cam box. \\ | The oil can go right up the pump shaft directly into the cam box. \\ | ||
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| Below are some ideas for fixing a leaky shaft seal. \\ | Below are some ideas for fixing a leaky shaft seal. \\ | ||
| - | ==== By bustert ==== | ||
| + | ==== By bustert ==== | ||
| Normally, you'd use precision equipment for this. However, below shows how you can do the job with common home tools. \\ | Normally, you'd use precision equipment for this. However, below shows how you can do the job with common home tools. \\ | ||
| The cost of this project would be $4.00 U.S. for the bushing and whatever you can find a milling bit for. \\ | The cost of this project would be $4.00 U.S. for the bushing and whatever you can find a milling bit for. \\ | ||
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| These plates with extension can be made from regular steel and tubing. \\ | These plates with extension can be made from regular steel and tubing. \\ | ||
| - | {{: | + | {{: |
| - | {{: | + | {{: |
| - | {{: | + | {{: |
| - | ==== By Ferrous Head ==== | + | |
| + | ==== By Ferrous Head ==== | ||
| The pump already has an oil seal in the body of the pump. \\ | The pump already has an oil seal in the body of the pump. \\ | ||
| This seal stops oil from leaking past the shaft on the scavenge side and into the feed side gears. \\ | This seal stops oil from leaking past the shaft on the scavenge side and into the feed side gears. \\ | ||
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| Click on a pic to enlarge. \\ | Click on a pic to enlarge. \\ | ||
| - | {{: | + | {{: |
| - | {{: | + | {{: |
| Here are pics of the tools (made from mild steel) that were made for installation. \\ | Here are pics of the tools (made from mild steel) that were made for installation. \\ | ||
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| Also below is the tool to install the oil seal. Not really necessary but it makes the whole job faster and easier to do. \\ | Also below is the tool to install the oil seal. Not really necessary but it makes the whole job faster and easier to do. \\ | ||
| - | {{: | + | {{: |
| ==== By needspeed ==== | ==== By needspeed ==== | ||
| - | |||
| When the pump is together there is a 3/16" space between the bottom of the breather sleeve and the top cover. \\ | When the pump is together there is a 3/16" space between the bottom of the breather sleeve and the top cover. \\ | ||
| Enough room for a 1/8" thick insert that holds the seal and is tight to the I.D. of the cover tube. \\ | Enough room for a 1/8" thick insert that holds the seal and is tight to the I.D. of the cover tube. \\ | ||
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| This was made from aluminum on a lathe. \\ | This was made from aluminum on a lathe. \\ | ||
| - | {{: | + | {{: |
| + | |||
| + | ====== Pump Body Damage ====== | ||
| + | 1952-1976 oil pumps cannot be removed/ | ||
| + | This makes questionable imperfections more to a higher degree of scrutiny than 77-up gerotor pumps that don't require engine uprooting. \\ | ||
| + | |||
| + | |||
| + | Below is a compilation of just a few oil pumps with various gear well damage. \\ | ||
| + | |||
| + | {{: | ||
| + | ====== Roll Pin Damage/ | ||
| + | Generally you have 3 lines of action depending on what you're up against. ((Dr Dick of the XLFORUM https:// | ||
| + | - Squeeze exposed od of pin so it gets smaller and releases the press fit in the hole. | ||
| + | - Make a " | ||
| + | - The most extreme but the most effecient and most often the only option. \\ Get a drill bit that fits thru the center hole of the busted pin. \\ Drill clear thru parent part with this bit. Flip part over to get the far end of this thru the hole. \\ Sometimes you can get a drift in this new small hole and catch pin. Tap the pin out. \\ If you can't catch the pin with the drift, from far side enlarge small hole with bit bigger than 1st but smaller than actuall pin hole od. \\ Fit drift thru this hole and tap pin out. Original hole area remains uneffected. New pin will fit normal. | ||
| + | ====== Idler Shaft Removal ====== | ||
| + | If the idler shaft is damaged, you can remove it by applying heat (150°F) to the pump body and the shaft should fall out. \\ | ||
| + | Heat the pump body to (150°F) to install idler gear shaft. Shaft may not protrude above either oil pump body face. ((1972-2003 XR-750 Service Manual)) \\ | ||
| \\ | \\ | ||
