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techtalk:ref:engctl01 [2022/05/27 02:23] – [Two Timing Advance Systems] ixl2relaxtechtalk:ref:engctl01 [2024/10/07 15:56] (current) – [Programming the Ultima, Dyna & Dynatek Modules] ixl2relax
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   * [[techtalk:ref:engctl01c|Some Sportster Ignition Modules Timing Curves]]    * [[techtalk:ref:engctl01c|Some Sportster Ignition Modules Timing Curves]] 
 +
 +  * [[techtalk:ref:engctl01e|A Neat Timing Trick - Timing Light]] 
  
 \\ \\
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 ===== Why Adjust The Spark Timing? ===== ===== Why Adjust The Spark Timing? =====
  
-Quoting XLForum member, **RacerWill**:((http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1422868 Post#15))\\+Quoting XLForum member, **RacerWill**:((https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-electrical/sportster-motorcycle-electrical-and-ignition/132778-daytona-tc88a-do-your-own-mapping-tips-questions?t=1422868+Post#15))\\
 | One of the things that makes understanding timing difficult is that we're talking about 2 different time frames - crankshaft degrees for spark and real time combustion. We light the fire based on crankshaft degrees and engine load but actual burn time is in real time. To get optimal performance we need to light the fire early enough so it has just the right amount of real time to reach max cylinder pressure just after TDC - so it can expand and smoothly push the piston down, this is called MEP or Mean Effective Pressure.\\ \\ Typically, you want max pressure to occur about 7 degrees after TDC. Running too much advance starts the burn too early and max pressure happens at or before TDC, causing "ping" (actually knock). Conversely, not enough advance to the spark causes max pressure to happen too late, producing less power and laboring the engine, making it run hot.\\ \\ The programmable advance maps on the TC88A, and other modern ignition systems, allows timing curves to be altered at any RPM and any load. By trial and error the best map can be found. I didn't know about having all advance in at 3200rpm but that makes sense to me. I run about 32 deg advance but my compression is a little higher than most and compression slows burn time. | | One of the things that makes understanding timing difficult is that we're talking about 2 different time frames - crankshaft degrees for spark and real time combustion. We light the fire based on crankshaft degrees and engine load but actual burn time is in real time. To get optimal performance we need to light the fire early enough so it has just the right amount of real time to reach max cylinder pressure just after TDC - so it can expand and smoothly push the piston down, this is called MEP or Mean Effective Pressure.\\ \\ Typically, you want max pressure to occur about 7 degrees after TDC. Running too much advance starts the burn too early and max pressure happens at or before TDC, causing "ping" (actually knock). Conversely, not enough advance to the spark causes max pressure to happen too late, producing less power and laboring the engine, making it run hot.\\ \\ The programmable advance maps on the TC88A, and other modern ignition systems, allows timing curves to be altered at any RPM and any load. By trial and error the best map can be found. I didn't know about having all advance in at 3200rpm but that makes sense to me. I run about 32 deg advance but my compression is a little higher than most and compression slows burn time. |
  
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 ===== Too Much Advance Timing? ===== ===== Too Much Advance Timing? =====
  
-Quoting XLForum member, **ASWRacing**:((http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1650461 Post#12))\\+Quoting XLForum member, **ASWRacing**:((https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-electrical/sportster-motorcycle-electrical-and-ignition/153340-a-timing-question?t=1650461+Post#12))\\
 **A Perspective by Aaron Wilson of Hammer Performance. (June 2013)**\\ **A Perspective by Aaron Wilson of Hammer Performance. (June 2013)**\\
 | I've dyno'ed thousands of bikes over a long period of time, and on many many of them I've dialed in the timing during the process. Advanced it until the power dropped off, retarded it until the power dropped off, and then centered it in between those two locations. I've also played with curves a lot.\\ \\ **I'm here to tell you that too much timing most definitely costs power, and on the vast majority of bikes, the optimum timing is well below the threshold of ping. Running more timing than optimum makes your motor run hotter and puts the pistons at risk and the threshold of ping is a terrible place to put the timing on most bikes!**\\ \\ Most of these bikes, when they have reasonable compression and chamber turbulence (i.e. a squish band), will want their ignition timing set for about 28-30 degrees max advance at WOT. Going past that starts hurting power and making the motors run hot.\\ \\ When you do a performance build, you really should get an aftermarket ignition, because not only can you turn down the timing, you can bring the timing in more slowly. You almost always find power when you do that on a higher compression build! Most of the motors like it so slow that it's not all-in until 4500-5000rpm. On many ignitions, I've found the best power on the softest curve available. For example, the Dyna 2000 curve 4 almost always works the best if the bike under test has 10:1 compression or more. On a Twin Tec TC88A I literally found the best power on my 04 883/1250 on initial 2 / slope 0. That's the softest curve and almost the least amount of timing the module can give.\\ \\ Getting this notion out of people's heads that more timing = more power has always been a huge challenge in this business. When you're talking about a performance build, the exact opposite is almost always true. We have a vested interest in seeing our customers get this right, because we don't want complaints of scuffed or broken pistons, and that's exactly what will happen if you run the timing too high, sooner or later. | | I've dyno'ed thousands of bikes over a long period of time, and on many many of them I've dialed in the timing during the process. Advanced it until the power dropped off, retarded it until the power dropped off, and then centered it in between those two locations. I've also played with curves a lot.\\ \\ **I'm here to tell you that too much timing most definitely costs power, and on the vast majority of bikes, the optimum timing is well below the threshold of ping. Running more timing than optimum makes your motor run hotter and puts the pistons at risk and the threshold of ping is a terrible place to put the timing on most bikes!**\\ \\ Most of these bikes, when they have reasonable compression and chamber turbulence (i.e. a squish band), will want their ignition timing set for about 28-30 degrees max advance at WOT. Going past that starts hurting power and making the motors run hot.\\ \\ When you do a performance build, you really should get an aftermarket ignition, because not only can you turn down the timing, you can bring the timing in more slowly. You almost always find power when you do that on a higher compression build! Most of the motors like it so slow that it's not all-in until 4500-5000rpm. On many ignitions, I've found the best power on the softest curve available. For example, the Dyna 2000 curve 4 almost always works the best if the bike under test has 10:1 compression or more. On a Twin Tec TC88A I literally found the best power on my 04 883/1250 on initial 2 / slope 0. That's the softest curve and almost the least amount of timing the module can give.\\ \\ Getting this notion out of people's heads that more timing = more power has always been a huge challenge in this business. When you're talking about a performance build, the exact opposite is almost always true. We have a vested interest in seeing our customers get this right, because we don't want complaints of scuffed or broken pistons, and that's exactly what will happen if you run the timing too high, sooner or later. |
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 On newer, **fully electronic ignition modules** (such as the Ultima, Dynatek or other modules), which do not use mechanical advance mechanisms, the electronic module will calculate (internally) the proper amount of timing advance based on not only RPM but also on intake vacuum in the manifold. For these modules, they must be synchronized by **SETTING THE MODULE AT TOP DEAD CENTER** (no advance). Since the electronic module calculates when to produce the spark, it can use the TDC synchronized setting as a reference for any advance it is programmed to use. On newer, **fully electronic ignition modules** (such as the Ultima, Dynatek or other modules), which do not use mechanical advance mechanisms, the electronic module will calculate (internally) the proper amount of timing advance based on not only RPM but also on intake vacuum in the manifold. For these modules, they must be synchronized by **SETTING THE MODULE AT TOP DEAD CENTER** (no advance). Since the electronic module calculates when to produce the spark, it can use the TDC synchronized setting as a reference for any advance it is programmed to use.
  
-If you don't have the ability to reprogram your module, the timing curve endpoints can be altered (which moves the starting & ending points) by adjusting the base plate clockwise (for more advance) or counterclockwise (for less advance). Move the plate in very small increments as the tick marks indicate 2-5° each. "If you measure the timing marks on a stock pickup plate, they're about .065" apart, i.e. about 5 degrees."((aswracing Post#18 - http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1423947))+If you don't have the ability to reprogram your module, the timing curve endpoints can be altered (which moves the starting & ending points) by adjusting the base plate clockwise (for more advance) or counterclockwise (for less advance). Move the plate in very small increments as the tick marks indicate 2-5° each. "If you measure the timing marks on a stock pickup plate, they're about .065" apart, i.e. about 5 degrees."((aswracing Post#18 - https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-electrical/sportster-motorcycle-electrical-and-ignition/132853-timing-question-on-a-1250-conversion?t=1423947))
  
  
 \\ \\
- 
- 
  
  
 ===== Manifold Absolute Pressure -vs- Vacuum Reading ===== ===== Manifold Absolute Pressure -vs- Vacuum Reading =====
  
-Quoting XLForum member, **RacerWill**:((http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1422868 Post#27))\\+Quoting XLForum member, **RacerWill**:((https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-electrical/sportster-motorcycle-electrical-and-ignition/132778-daytona-tc88a-do-your-own-mapping-tips-questions?t=1422868+Post#27))\\
 | Just a quick note on MAP(Manifold Absolute Pressure). First, the word "absolute" refers to where zero is placed on the scale. In PSI Absolute, 0 psi is a perfect vacuum and atmospheric pressure is 14.696 psi approx. In PSIg (gauge) atmospheric pressure is zero and a perfect vacuum is -14.696PSIg (equal to 30 inches of mercury, InHg). Kilopascals is the metric version of the absolute measure where a perfect vacuum is zero and atmospheric pressure is 101.325 kPa.\\ \\ The MAP value represents engine load - a higher number represents higher load (more open throttle compared to RPM).\\ \\ For example:\\ Cruising along at 3000rpm on a slight down grade has very low engine load and a lower MAP (kPa) number. If that slight downgrade turns into a steep uphill, you open the throttle to maintain 3000 rpm and the same speed. The MAP (kPa) number starts to climb towards atmospheric pressure 30 InHg (101.3 kPa).| | Just a quick note on MAP(Manifold Absolute Pressure). First, the word "absolute" refers to where zero is placed on the scale. In PSI Absolute, 0 psi is a perfect vacuum and atmospheric pressure is 14.696 psi approx. In PSIg (gauge) atmospheric pressure is zero and a perfect vacuum is -14.696PSIg (equal to 30 inches of mercury, InHg). Kilopascals is the metric version of the absolute measure where a perfect vacuum is zero and atmospheric pressure is 101.325 kPa.\\ \\ The MAP value represents engine load - a higher number represents higher load (more open throttle compared to RPM).\\ \\ For example:\\ Cruising along at 3000rpm on a slight down grade has very low engine load and a lower MAP (kPa) number. If that slight downgrade turns into a steep uphill, you open the throttle to maintain 3000 rpm and the same speed. The MAP (kPa) number starts to climb towards atmospheric pressure 30 InHg (101.3 kPa).|
  
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 | | BROWN | Tachometer Trigger | Tachometer Trigger | | | BROWN | Tachometer Trigger | Tachometer Trigger |
  
-(http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=49655)+(https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-electrical/sportster-motorcycle-electrical-and-ignition/29798-more-q-s-about-se-ignition-mod-for-91-sporty?t=49655)
  
 \\ \\
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 +**1005Race** - Recommended for 1971-1997 Sportsters (Race advance curves with a slightly wider adjustment range)\\
 **1005EX** - Recommended for 1986-93 Sportsters (50 States Street Legal)\\ **1005EX** - Recommended for 1986-93 Sportsters (50 States Street Legal)\\
-- - - - -- Install Info: http://www.daytona-twintec.com/Content/Internal/1005_EX_Instructions.doc +- - - - -- Install Info: https://jmschip.com/content/DTT/Instr/1005_Instructions.pdf
- +
-**1005Race** - Recommended for 1971-1997 Sportsters (Race advance curves with a slightly wider adjustment range)\\ +
-- - - - -- Install Info: http://www.daytona-twintec.com/Content/Internal/1005_Instructions.doc+
  
 **1005S-EX** - Recommended for 1998-2003 Sportsters (Not for 1200S) (50 States Street Legal)\\ **1005S-EX** - Recommended for 1998-2003 Sportsters (Not for 1200S) (50 States Street Legal)\\
 - - - -  - 1005S-EX replaces OEM  module & uses OEM harness - Advance Curves optimized for these models\\ - - - -  - 1005S-EX replaces OEM  module & uses OEM harness - Advance Curves optimized for these models\\
-- - - - -- Install Info: http://daytona-twintec.com/Content/Internal/1005_S_EX_Instructions.doc +- - - - -- Install Info: https://jmschip.com/content/DTT/Instr/1005_S_EX_Instructions.pdf
  
 The Daytona installation documentation for the 1005S-EX nosecone module notes a change of wiring. They indicate the pin placement of the PINK wire and the LtGREEN/Gray wire in the Ignition Module Connector are different in different years. However, their documentation to identify the years affected is wrong. They __incorrectly__ describe the two versions as applying to 1998-2001 models and 2002-later models. The Daytona installation documentation for the 1005S-EX nosecone module notes a change of wiring. They indicate the pin placement of the PINK wire and the LtGREEN/Gray wire in the Ignition Module Connector are different in different years. However, their documentation to identify the years affected is wrong. They __incorrectly__ describe the two versions as applying to 1998-2001 models and 2002-later models.
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 At Daytona-TwinTec.com - 1005 Sales Information:\\ At Daytona-TwinTec.com - 1005 Sales Information:\\
-http://www.daytona-twintec.com/model-1005-ex-internal-ignition.aspx+https://daytona-twintec.com/shop 
 + 
 +At Daytona-TwinTec.com - Install Download Links 
 +https://daytona-twintec.com/downloads
  
  
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 \\ \\
 **Daytona TC88A Install Instructions**\\ **Daytona TC88A Install Instructions**\\
-TC88A Version Install [[http://daytona-twintec.com/Content/TC88A/1009_Instructions.doc]]\\+TC88A Version Install [[https://jmschip.com/content/DTT/Instr/1009_Instructions.pdf]]\\
  
 **Programmer Wiring** ---> [[techtalk:ref:engctl50h|TC88A Wire Connections For Programming]]\\ **Programmer Wiring** ---> [[techtalk:ref:engctl50h|TC88A Wire Connections For Programming]]\\
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 **XLForum Discussions of the Twin Tec TC88A module**\\ **XLForum Discussions of the Twin Tec TC88A module**\\
-http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=518158 - Foxster - Screamin' Eagle versus TC88A ignition modules for '04-'06 Sportsters \\ +XLForum Member - Foxster - Screamin' Eagle versus TC88A ignition modules for '04-'06 Sportsters [[https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-buell-motorcycle-forum-general-discussion/product-reviews/74112-screamin-eagle-versus-tc88a-ignition-modules-for-04-06-sportsters?t=518158|(HERE)]]\\ 
-http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1525483 - ESteid - Installing a Twin-Tech TC88A on an 04\\+XLForum Member - ESteid - Installing a Twin-Tech TC88A on an 04 [[https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-electrical/sportster-motorcycle-electrical-and-ignition/140699-installing-a-twin-tech-tc88a-on-an-04?t=1525483|(HERE)]]\\
  
 **Further Note: EX Version** **Further Note: EX Version**
   * There is also an EX Version of the TC88A with an expanded advance curve table (which is not as popular as the default TC88A, the Race Version). The EX version allows setting advance values for lower pressure conditions (10, 12 & 14 In/Hg). However, there does not appear to be much advantage to these settings. Note the following information from Daytona support:   * There is also an EX Version of the TC88A with an expanded advance curve table (which is not as popular as the default TC88A, the Race Version). The EX version allows setting advance values for lower pressure conditions (10, 12 & 14 In/Hg). However, there does not appear to be much advantage to these settings. Note the following information from Daytona support:
-  * "From Daytona... Very few engines require additional spark advance below 16 in-Hg manifold pressure. The TC88A uses the 16 In-Hg value for all lower pressures. As further clarification, internal cylinder pressure is so low under these conditions (MAP below 16 in-Hg) that maximum spark advance values near 45 degrees are reasonable for most engine applications. Since 45 degrees is the maximum advance the TC88 series is capable of, there is no reason to complicate the advance tables. Even higher advance values yield little benefit." ((60Gunner at http://xlforum.net/forums/showpost.php?p=5800214&postcount=251))\\ +  * "From Daytona... Very few engines require additional spark advance below 16 in-Hg manifold pressure. The TC88A uses the 16 In-Hg value for all lower pressures. As further clarification, internal cylinder pressure is so low under these conditions (MAP below 16 in-Hg) that maximum spark advance values near 45 degrees are reasonable for most engine applications. Since 45 degrees is the maximum advance the TC88 series is capable of, there is no reason to complicate the advance tables. Even higher advance values yield little benefit." ((60Gunner at https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-electrical/sportster-motorcycle-electrical-and-ignition/132778-daytona-tc88a-do-your-own-mapping-tips-questions/page17?postcount=251#post4369483))\\ 
-TC88A-EX Version Install [[http://daytona-twintec.com/Content/TC88A/1009-EX_Instructions.doc]]\\+TC88A-EX Version Install [[https://jmschip.com/content/DTT/Instr/1009-EX_Instructions.pdf]]\\
  
 \\ \\
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 The install instructions are here: The install instructions are here:
  
-Dyna-S DS6-1 [[http://www.powercommander.com/downloads/Support-Released/Dynatek/Manuals/DS6-1.pdf|Installation Instructions]]+Dyna-S DS6-1 [[https://files.ekmcdn.com/dynojet/resources/other/ds6-1.pdf]]
 {{:techtalk:ref:engctl:dynatek-ds6-1-ignition.jpg?200|}} {{:techtalk:ref:engctl:dynatek-ds6-1-ignition.jpg?200|}}
  
-Dyna-S DS6-2 [[http://www.powercommander.com/downloads/Support-Released/Dynatek/Manuals/DS6-2.pdf|Installation Instructions]]+Dyna-S DS6-2 [[https://files.ekmcdn.com/dynojet/resources/other/ds6-2.pdf]]
 {{:techtalk:ref:engctl:dynatek-ds6-2-ignition.jpg?200|}} {{:techtalk:ref:engctl:dynatek-ds6-2-ignition.jpg?200|}}
   * Also DS6-2 with wiring diagram here - https://www.wwag.com/step/pdf/104729.pdf   * Also DS6-2 with wiring diagram here - https://www.wwag.com/step/pdf/104729.pdf
 +\\
 +
 +(As products become more aged, their instructions become more difficult to find.)\\
 +Other Install Guides - https://shop.dynatekuk.com/install-guides---software-208-c.asp
  
  
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 ===== Dynatek Dyna 2000i - Nosecone ICM ===== ===== Dynatek Dyna 2000i - Nosecone ICM =====
  
-The Dyna 2000i (D2Ki) is a self-contained ignition module meaning the timing sensors are built onto the timing plate, located in the 'nosecone'. The timing rotor cup passes thru the sensors on the back of the timing plate to trigger the ignition module. While this module and the Ultima module are similar in installation & wiring, the selectable internal curve sets are different ([[techtalk:ref:engctl01#ultima_-_nosecone_ignition_control_module|Ultima Module]]).+The Dyna 2000i (D2Ki-1p) is a self-contained ignition module meaning the timing sensors are built onto the timing plate, located in the 'nosecone'. The timing rotor cup passes thru the sensors on the back of the timing plate to trigger the ignition module. While this module and the Ultima module are similar in installation & wiring, the selectable internal curve sets are different ([[techtalk:ref:engctl01#ultima_-_nosecone_ignition_control_module|Ultima Module]]).
  
-| **Dyna 2000i Switch Options** - OFF(F) or ON(O)\\ \\ **Sw1 - Mode Selection**\\ F - Typical Setting - Used on most bikes\\ O - Retard Mode for Nitrous or Turbo engine\\ \\ **Sw2 & Sw3** - Choose Curve Selection (sets)\\ F / F - Adv Curve1 - Most Aggressive\\ O / F - Adv Curve2 - Near Stock\\ F / O - Adv Curve3 - Slower to reach max\\ O / O - Adv Curve4 - Least Aggressive\\ \\ Each curve set selection consists of two\\ internal curves controlled by the VOES:\\ One curve is VOES=ON for Idle/Cruise\\ The other curve is VOES=OFF for WOT\\ \\ **Sw4 & Sw5** - Used as a set for RPM Limit\\ F / F - 6000 RPM for stock engine\\ O / F - 6500 RPM modified street engine\\ F / O - 7000 RPM race engine - be careful\\ O / O - 7500 RPM race engine - be careful\\ \\ **Sw6 - Coil Trigger Control**\\ F - Dual-Fire Coil Control - One Trigger Signal\\ O -- Single-Fire Coil Control - Two Separate Triggers | {{:techtalk:ref:engctl:dynatek-d2000i-module.jpg?300|}}((Pic by jordan1200 - http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2069595))\\ \\ **RED LED - Status Indicator**\\ **--> Used to set Reference Timing at TDC**\\ At Power ON, should blink for 1/4 second\\ Rapid Blinking (Engine NOT Running) = a fault occured\\ Reset after faults - Turn power off for 1-2 seconds\\ Blinking (Engine Running) = Normal Coil Triggers\\ \\ **GREEN LED - VOES/RTD Indicator**\\ Indicates the status of the VOES/RTD input signal wire.\\ For VOES, when ON, the input signal line is grounded,\\ indicating use of the more Advanced Curve. |+| **Dyna 2000i Switch Options** - OFF(F) or ON(O)\\ \\ **Sw1 - Mode Selection**\\ F - Typical Setting - Used on most bikes\\ O - Retard Mode for Nitrous or Turbo engine\\ \\ **Sw2 & Sw3** - Choose Curve Selection (sets)\\ F / F - Adv Curve1 - Most Aggressive\\ O / F - Adv Curve2 - Near Stock\\ F / O - Adv Curve3 - Slower to reach max\\ O / O - Adv Curve4 - Least Aggressive\\ \\ Each curve set selection consists of two\\ internal curves controlled by the VOES:\\ One curve is VOES=ON for Idle/Cruise\\ The other curve is VOES=OFF for WOT\\ \\ **Sw4 & Sw5** - Used as a set for RPM Limit\\ F / F - 6000 RPM for stock engine\\ O / F - 6500 RPM modified street engine\\ F / O - 7000 RPM race engine - be careful\\ O / O - 7500 RPM race engine - be careful\\ \\ **Sw6 - Coil Trigger Control**\\ F - Dual-Fire Coil Control - One Trigger Signal\\ O -- Single-Fire Coil Control - Two Separate Triggers | {{:techtalk:ref:engctl:dynatek-d2000i-module.jpg?300|}}((Pic by jordan1200 - https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-electrical/sportster-motorcycle-electrical-and-ignition/193542-dynamic-timing-the-2000i?t=2069595))\\ \\ **RED LED - Status Indicator**\\ **--> Used to set Reference Timing at TDC**\\ At Power ON, should blink for 1/4 second\\ Rapid Blinking (Engine NOT Running) = a fault occured\\ Reset after faults - Turn power off for 1-2 seconds\\ Blinking (Engine Running) = Normal Coil Triggers\\ \\ **GREEN LED - VOES/RTD Indicator**\\ Indicates the status of the VOES/RTD input signal wire.\\ For VOES, when ON, the input signal line is grounded,\\ indicating use of the more Advanced Curve. |
  
  
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 The Dyna 2000i unit triggers the coil primary circuit - either as a dual-fire system (two sparks per one trigger) or a single-fire system (two separate sparks by two separate trigger signals). The proper coil must be used to match either a dual-fire or single-fire system. The module also has an output for a tachometer and has an input for using a VOES (which is recommended for street bikes) to alter the spark timing during idle & cruising.  The Dyna 2000i unit triggers the coil primary circuit - either as a dual-fire system (two sparks per one trigger) or a single-fire system (two separate sparks by two separate trigger signals). The proper coil must be used to match either a dual-fire or single-fire system. The module also has an output for a tachometer and has an input for using a VOES (which is recommended for street bikes) to alter the spark timing during idle & cruising. 
  
-The install instructions are here: Dyna 2000i [[https://www.wwag.com/step/pdf/123271.pdf|Installation Instructions (2801103 Rev. C version)]]\\+Product Information for the D2Ki-1p is [[https://shop.dynatekuk.com/d2ki-1p-491-p.asp/|HERE]].\\ 
 +The install instructions (2801103 Rev. C) from Dynatek are [[https://www.dynojet.com/installguide/D2KI-1P|HERE]]. Also [[https://www.denniskirk.com/dk/pdf/instructions/20/dk201009.pdf|HERE]]. Also [[https://www.wwag.com/step/pdf/123271.pdf|HERE]]. Older (2/99) install instructions are [[https://files.ekmcdn.com/dynojet/resources/other/d2ki-1p.pdf|HERE]].\\
  
-You may want to read the discussion about the curves & VOES in this [[http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2079914|XLForum thread]].+You may want to read the discussion about the curves & VOES in this [[https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-electrical/sportster-motorcycle-electrical-and-ignition/202710-2000i-install-question?t=2079914|XLForum thread]].
  
 An exmaple of using the D2Ki module to replace the 1998-2003 1200S ignition can be seen [[techtalk:ref:engctl01a|HERE]]. An exmaple of using the D2Ki module to replace the 1998-2003 1200S ignition can be seen [[techtalk:ref:engctl01a|HERE]].
 +
 +**NOTE:** In the Dyna FAQ((https://www.dynaonline.com/faqs)), it says this:
 +
 +"Can I kick start my motor with the 2000i installed? How?\\
 +... Yes, but it will require reprogramming the dead revs back to zero (0). Out of the box, the 2000I has 3 dead revs like a stock Harley-Davidson System. This is also a benefit for high compression motors using an electric starter. The kick must not start on the compression stroke (sensor in the window on the cup). Stopping 'in the window' will execute the soft turn off. The leading AND trailing edges of the window must be seen by the 2000i to make a spark."
 +
 +The 'soft turn off' of the module, when the sensor is 'in the window', is designed to prevent the coil from oversaturation from a constant grounded trigger signal. On a points system, oversaturation of the coil (burning it up) can occur if/when the keyswitch is on, the engine is not rotating and the coil is being energized by the points grounding the coil.
 +
 +(As products become more aged, their instructions become more difficult to find.)\\
 +Other Install Guides - https://shop.dynatekuk.com/dyna-2000-hd-224-c.asp\\
 +
 +(You might edit this link for other products - https://www.dynojet.com/installguide/D2KI-1P)
  
 \\ \\
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 ===== Dynatek DSPT-1 ICM ===== ===== Dynatek DSPT-1 ICM =====
  
-The DSPT-1 is designed to be used on the 2004-2005-2006 carburetored Sportsters. It plugs into the stock Ignition Control Module harness connector, uses the stock sensors and communicates with the instruments thru the J1850 data bus. This ICM is only configured with the switches and is not computer programmable.+The DSPT-1 is designed to be used on the 2004-2005-2006 carburetored Sportsters. It plugs into the stock Ignition Control Module harness connector, uses the stock sensors and communicates with the instruments thru the standard Serial Data Bus (J1850 data bus). This ICM is only configured with the switches and is not computer programmable.
  
-PSEBYL of the XLForum created a review of the DSPT-1 Module on his 883.\\ +PSEBYL of the XLForum created a review of the DSPT-1 Module on his 883. **His thread is [[https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-buell-motorcycle-forum-general-discussion/product-reviews/37408-review-dynatek-dspt-1-ignition-module?t=73957|(HERE)]].**
-**His thread is here:** http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=73957+
  
 His overview included this info: His overview included this info:
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-The following pictures are from xlSleeper on the XLForum.\\ +The following pictures are from xlSleeper on the XLForum. **His thread is [[https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-motor-engine/sportster-motorcycle-motor-top-end/121597-my-1250-build?t=1191285|(HERE)]].**
-**His thread is here:** http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1191285+
  
 {{:techtalk:ref:engctl:dynatek-dspt1-module.jpg?400|}} {{:techtalk:ref:engctl:dynatek-dspt1-module.jpg?400|}}
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-**Installation/Setup Manual PDF:** https://zodiac.nl/docs/instructions/730603.pdf+**Installation/Setup Manual PDF from dynatek is [[https://www.dynojet.com/installguide/DSPT-1|(HERE)]] and also [[https://zodiac.nl/docs/instructions/730603.pdf|(HERE)]].**
  
 Application Note: When used on the 2006 models, the speedometer reading may be off due to the change to HCR gears in the transmission, causing the VSS value to be higher than on 2004-2005 models. The DSPT-1 does not have an adjustable VSS value. Application Note: When used on the 2006 models, the speedometer reading may be off due to the change to HCR gears in the transmission, causing the VSS value to be higher than on 2004-2005 models. The DSPT-1 does not have an adjustable VSS value.
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 [[https://www.sscycle.com/docs/default-source/instruction-sheets/510-0277-hi-4n-ignition.pdf|Install Instructions 510-0277 (12-15-14) PDF]] [[https://www.sscycle.com/docs/default-source/instruction-sheets/510-0277-hi-4n-ignition.pdf|Install Instructions 510-0277 (12-15-14) PDF]]
  
-| The MODE SWITCH will select the following configurations:\\ \\ Single-Fire for electric start models:\\ 0 Single Spark, Race Curve\\ 1 Single Spark, OE Curve\\ 2 Multi Spark, Race Curve\\ 3 Multi Spark, OE Curve\\ \\ Dual-Fire for electric start models:\\ 4 Single Spark, Race Curve\\ 5 Single Spark, OE Curve\\ 6 Multi Spark, Race Curve\\ 7 Multi Spark, OE Curve\\ \\ For Kick Start Bikes (uses OEM curve with Single Spark):\\ 8 Single Fire\\ 9 Dual Fire\\ | {{:techtalk:ref:engctl:sns-crane-hi-4n-ignitionmodule.jpg?400|}}((Pic from Doug Funny - http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1751610)) |+| The MODE SWITCH will select the following configurations:\\ \\ Single-Fire for electric start models:\\ 0 Single Spark, Race Curve\\ 1 Single Spark, OE Curve\\ 2 Multi Spark, Race Curve\\ 3 Multi Spark, OE Curve\\ \\ Dual-Fire for electric start models:\\ 4 Single Spark, Race Curve\\ 5 Single Spark, OE Curve\\ 6 Multi Spark, Race Curve\\ 7 Multi Spark, OE Curve\\ \\ For Kick Start Bikes (uses OEM curve with Single Spark):\\ 8 Single Fire\\ 9 Dual Fire\\ | {{:techtalk:ref:engctl:sns-crane-hi-4n-ignitionmodule.jpg?400|}}((Pic from Doug Funny - https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/163044-timing-issues-with-crane-hi-4n?t=1751610)) |
  
 The ADVANCE RATE Switch provides selectable curves from 0 to 9, with 0 being the least aggressive ignition timing curve and 9 being the most aggressive (gets to maximum advance quickest). Setting 4 or 5 is thus a mid-point selection. The ADVANCE RATE Switch provides selectable curves from 0 to 9, with 0 being the least aggressive ignition timing curve and 9 being the most aggressive (gets to maximum advance quickest). Setting 4 or 5 is thus a mid-point selection.
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 | **Ultima 53-644 Switch Options** - OFF(F) or ON(O)\\ \\ **Sw1 - Mode Selection**\\ F - Typical Setting - Used on most bikes\\ O - Retard Mode for Nitrous or Turbo engine\\ \\ **Sw2 & Sw3** - Used as a set for Curve Selection\\ F / F - Adv Curve1 - Most Aggressive - Fast/HighestFinal\\ O / F - Adv Curve2\\ F / O - Adv Curve3\\ O / O - Adv Curve4 - Least Aggressive - Slow/LowestFinal\\ \\ Each curve set selection consists of two\\ internal curves controlled by the VOES:\\ One curve is VOES=ON for Idle/Cruise\\ The other curve is VOES=OFF for WOT\\ \\ **Sw4 & Sw5** - Used as a set for RPM Limit\\ F / F - 5500 RPM for Stock BT Engine\\ O / F - 6000 RPM Stock Sportster\\ F / O - 6500 RPM modified engine - be careful\\ O / O - 7000 RPM race engine - be careful\\ \\ **Sw6 - Coil Trigger Control**\\ F - Dual-Fire Coil Control - One Trigger Signal\\ O -- Single-Fire Coil Control - Two Separate Triggers\\ \\  | {{:techtalk:ref:engctl:ultima-53-644-ignition-module.jpg?400|}}((Pics by Blowby & Static of the XLForum.net))\\ \\ **RED LED - Status Indicator**\\ **--> Used to set Reference Timing at TDC**\\ At Power ON, should blink for 1/4 second\\ Rapid Blinking (Engine NOT Running) = a fault occured\\ Reset after faults - Turn power off for 1-2 seconds\\ Blinking (Engine Running) = Normal Coil Triggers\\ \\ **GREEN LED - Status Indicator**\\ Indicates the status of the VOES/RTD input signal.\\ For VOES, when ON, the input signal line is grounded,\\ indicating use of the more Advanced Curve. | | **Ultima 53-644 Switch Options** - OFF(F) or ON(O)\\ \\ **Sw1 - Mode Selection**\\ F - Typical Setting - Used on most bikes\\ O - Retard Mode for Nitrous or Turbo engine\\ \\ **Sw2 & Sw3** - Used as a set for Curve Selection\\ F / F - Adv Curve1 - Most Aggressive - Fast/HighestFinal\\ O / F - Adv Curve2\\ F / O - Adv Curve3\\ O / O - Adv Curve4 - Least Aggressive - Slow/LowestFinal\\ \\ Each curve set selection consists of two\\ internal curves controlled by the VOES:\\ One curve is VOES=ON for Idle/Cruise\\ The other curve is VOES=OFF for WOT\\ \\ **Sw4 & Sw5** - Used as a set for RPM Limit\\ F / F - 5500 RPM for Stock BT Engine\\ O / F - 6000 RPM Stock Sportster\\ F / O - 6500 RPM modified engine - be careful\\ O / O - 7000 RPM race engine - be careful\\ \\ **Sw6 - Coil Trigger Control**\\ F - Dual-Fire Coil Control - One Trigger Signal\\ O -- Single-Fire Coil Control - Two Separate Triggers\\ \\  | {{:techtalk:ref:engctl:ultima-53-644-ignition-module.jpg?400|}}((Pics by Blowby & Static of the XLForum.net))\\ \\ **RED LED - Status Indicator**\\ **--> Used to set Reference Timing at TDC**\\ At Power ON, should blink for 1/4 second\\ Rapid Blinking (Engine NOT Running) = a fault occured\\ Reset after faults - Turn power off for 1-2 seconds\\ Blinking (Engine Running) = Normal Coil Triggers\\ \\ **GREEN LED - Status Indicator**\\ Indicates the status of the VOES/RTD input signal.\\ For VOES, when ON, the input signal line is grounded,\\ indicating use of the more Advanced Curve. |
 |  {{:techtalk:ref:engctl:ultima-53-644-wiring-df.jpg?350|}}  |  {{:techtalk:ref:engctl:ultima-53-644-wiring-sf.jpg?350|}}  | |  {{:techtalk:ref:engctl:ultima-53-644-wiring-df.jpg?350|}}  |  {{:techtalk:ref:engctl:ultima-53-644-wiring-sf.jpg?350|}}  |
 +\\
 +
 +**Discussions of Using the Ultima Module on Ironhead Sportsters (and Kick-Only)**
 +
 +Ultima offers (__as of 2023__) two versions of the 53-644 Ignition Module. The standard version has a 3-dead-rev programming to meet the needs of most EVO engines. This is reprogrammable as needed. It also offers a model 53-644K version which is supplied already programmed for 0-dead-revs for better starting on Kicker models.
 +
 +According to Ultima, the ignition module included in the ignition kit identified as 53-660 (which includes the module, proper coil, proper timing cup, spark plug wires & misc parts) has been pre-programmed to 0-dead-revs, which is compatible with kick-only Sportsters. It is a very complete conversion kit.((Jeff in Post#57 - https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/205213-broke-down-and-ordered-an-ultima-ignition-kit?t=2082634))
 +
 +For an example of an install on an Ironhead, see this thread:\\
 +https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/162717-quick-ultima-question?t=1747557
  
-For an example of an install, in this case on an Ironhead, see this thread: http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1747557+Other similar discussion threads about the Ultima module.\\ 
 +https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/123464-ultima-digital-ignition-questions-for-those-running-it?t=1223921\\ 
 +https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/205213-broke-down-and-ordered-an-ultima-ignition-kit?t=2082634\\
  
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 Mfg Product Info - Website\\ Mfg Product Info - Website\\
-[[https://www.dynaonline.com/motorcycle-dyna-2000i/|Dyna 2000i Product Information]] ([[https://shop.dynatekuk.com/ekmps/shops/dynojet/resources/Other/d2ki-1p.pdf|Instructions PDF]])+[[https://www.dynaonline.com/dyna-2000i-performance-ignition-for-1970-1999-harley-davidson-carbureted-models-d2ki-1p/|Dyna 2000i Product Information]]\\
 \\ \\
-http://www.dynaonline.com/products/harley-davidson/programming-kit-harness.aspx\\ +[[https://www.dynaonline.com/accessories/programming-kits/|Various Programming Kits]] 
-    * [[https://www.dynaonline.com/dyna-2000i-ignition-curvemaker-programming-kit-serial-dipk-1/|DIPK-1 is a SERIAL-PORT programming cable kit]] (Mates with PH-1 for programming)([[https://shop.dynatekuk.com/ekmps/shops/dynojet/resources/Other/dipk-1.pdf|Instructions PDF]]) +    * [[https://www.dynaonline.com/dyna-2000i-ignition-curvemaker-programming-kit-serial-dipk-1/|DIPK-1 is a SERIAL-PORT programming cable kit]] (Mates with PH-1 for programming)([[https://files.ekmcdn.com/dynojet/resources/other/dipk-1.pdf|Instructions PDF]]) 
-    * [[https://www.dynaonline.com/dyna-2000i-programming-harness-bike-side-stub-ph-1/|PH-1 is the ON-BIKE harness kit]] ([[https://shop.dynatekuk.com/ekmps/shops/dynojet/resources/Other/ph-1.pdf|Instructions PDF]]) +    * [[https://www.dynaonline.com/dyna-2000i-programming-harness-bike-side-stub-ph-1/|PH-1 is the ON-BIKE harness kit]] ([[https://files.ekmcdn.com/dynojet/resources/other/ph-1.pdf|Instructions PDF]]) 
-    * [[https://shop.dynatekuk.com/programming-kits-175-c.asp|DIPK-7 - A new USB-PORT Adapter programming cable kit]] (that mates with PH-1 for programming)+    * [[https://shop.dynatekuk.com/programming-kits-175-c.asp|DIPK-7 - A new USB-PORT Adapter programming cable kit]] (that __mates with PH-1__ for programming) 
 +        * [[https://www.dynaonline.com/amfile/file/download/file/5053/category/496/|USB Adapter Windows Software Driver (EXE File)]]\\
  
-Software Download ([[https://www.dynaonline.com/downloads/software-firmware/|Menu]])\\ +Programming Software Download ([[https://www.dynaonline.com/downloads/software-firmware/|Menu]])\\ 
-[[https://www.dynaonline.com/amfile/file/download/file/R2dWGQ71obH9asbG96T0nUSx947oqfSh/category/496/|Curvemaker Software Download]] \\ +[[https://docs.dynaonline.com/Document/18802|Curvemaker Software Download]] \\
-[[https://www.dynaonline.com/amfile/file/download/file/hqqtzJV0cHmRzyYEGZkBImpwucJWfsfF/category/496/|USB Adapter Windows Software Driver]]\\+
 [[https://www.dynaonline.com/faqs|Frequently Asked Questions at Dynaonline.com]] [[https://www.dynaonline.com/faqs|Frequently Asked Questions at Dynaonline.com]]
  
-Aftermarket Programming Cable (may no longer be available)\\ +Check eBay for Aftermarket Programming Cable for Dyna 2000i / 2000P / Ultima (was 332638037964)\\ 
-https://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-programming-cable-for-Harley-ignition-Dyna-2000i-2000P-Ultima/332638037964\\+ 
 +[[https://shop.dynatekuk.com/sitemap.asp|Another Dyna Information Link in the UK]] 
  
-[[https://shop.dynatekuk.com/sitemap.asp|Another Information Link]]+[[techtalk:ref:engctl01b|SubDoc - DIY PROJECT - User Created - Programming Interface for Ignition Modules]]\\ 
 +This interface is operated by an RS-232 Serial Port on your PC.
  
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