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| techtalk:ref:oil05f [2019/05/25 04:00] – [Conclusions from testing] hippysmack | techtalk:ref:oil05f [2023/12/23 01:28] (current) – hippysmack | ||
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| ====== REF: Oiling & Lubrication - Sub-05F ====== | ====== REF: Oiling & Lubrication - Sub-05F ====== | ||
| - | ====== | + | ====== |
| Related articles in the Evo section of the Sportsterpedia: | Related articles in the Evo section of the Sportsterpedia: | ||
| ........ * [[techtalk: | ........ * [[techtalk: | ||
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| ---- | ---- | ||
| - | Karling Racing in Sweden designed this mod after flow testing a 2007-up Sportster oil pump for use in an 86-90 engine. ((Jorgen of the XLFORUM | + | Karling Racing in Sweden designed this mod after flow testing a 2007-up Sportster oil pump for use in an 86-90 engine. ((Jorgen of the XLFORUM |
| - | | Karling Racing' | + | | Karling Racing' |
| - | |{{: | + | |{{: |
| - | ====== Applications for this mod ====== | + | Contact: \\ |
| + | [[http:// | ||
| + | Telephone +46(8)51400488 \\ | ||
| + | E-mail: sale@karlingracing.com \\ | ||
| + | ====== Applications for this mod ====== | ||
| __This oil pump modification is only suitable in engines where you want to maximize crankcase sump scavenging__. \\ | __This oil pump modification is only suitable in engines where you want to maximize crankcase sump scavenging__. \\ | ||
| - | It was originally designed with a 124" S&S motor in mind. [[http:// | + | It was originally designed with a 124" S&S motor in mind. [[https://www.xlforum.net/ |
| A Karling modified 2007-and-up oil pump may be an improvement in Sportster Evo engines with pre-98 H-D OEM cases. \\ | A Karling modified 2007-and-up oil pump may be an improvement in Sportster Evo engines with pre-98 H-D OEM cases. \\ | ||
| These engines were not made to scavenge from the cam chest either. They have the oil drain from the cam chest to the sump. \\ | These engines were not made to scavenge from the cam chest either. They have the oil drain from the cam chest to the sump. \\ | ||
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| ====== Background ====== | ====== Background ====== | ||
| - | |||
| Previously, most engine builders fitted 4-cam race engines with ProFlow 3-stage or 4-stage oil pumps. \\ | Previously, most engine builders fitted 4-cam race engines with ProFlow 3-stage or 4-stage oil pumps. \\ | ||
| Since those pumps are now discontinued, | Since those pumps are now discontinued, | ||
| Line 51: | Line 54: | ||
| ==== Cam chest drainage ==== | ==== Cam chest drainage ==== | ||
| - | |||
| Notice the differences in the 86-90 and 91-up cam chest floor. \\ | Notice the differences in the 86-90 and 91-up cam chest floor. \\ | ||
| The elevation is stepped down from left to right on both cases. \\ | The elevation is stepped down from left to right on both cases. \\ | ||
| Line 73: | Line 75: | ||
| Click here to see [[techtalk: | Click here to see [[techtalk: | ||
| - | | S&S cam chest drain ((photo by Jorgen of the XLFORUM | + | | S&S cam chest drain ((photo by Jorgen of the XLFORUM |
| |{{: | |{{: | ||
| ==== Sportster oil pumps ==== | ==== Sportster oil pumps ==== | ||
| - | |||
| The design of the oil pumps changed with the different oiling system changes to the engines. \\ | The design of the oil pumps changed with the different oiling system changes to the engines. \\ | ||
| You can see the runners on the top of the 98-up pumps leading to the cam chest drain port. \\ | You can see the runners on the top of the 98-up pumps leading to the cam chest drain port. \\ | ||
| - | | 86-90 Oil Pump Oiling Paths. ((photo by Hippysmack)) | + | | 86-90 Oil Pump Oiling Paths. ((photo by Hippysmack)) |
| |{{: | |{{: | ||
| + | ==== Reason this mod came to be ==== | ||
| + | During the 124" build, a 2007-up Sportster oil pump was installed. \\ | ||
| + | Upon dyno testing, it was revealed that there was a reduction in max power and torque pointing wetsumping at high RPM. \\ | ||
| + | Tests were also done running the bike at different rpms, then stopping the engine to drain and measure the volume of oil in the sump. \\ | ||
| + | These test also pointed to at wetsumping. \\ | ||
| + | Then, suspected culprit was the oil pump. The modern (1998-up) H-D oil pumps have a suction port in the cam chest. \\ | ||
| - | ====== Considerations ====== | + | But unlike modern H-D cases, the S&S cases drain the cam chest to the crankcase sump. \\ |
| + | And that drain hole is situated at a lower point in the cam chest than the cam chest suction port to the oil pump. \\ | ||
| + | Then it was thought that the camchest suction port in the oil pump only delivers air into the oil return gerotor in this application. \\ | ||
| + | (thereby lowering the possible return flowrate from the sump) \\ | ||
| + | So the idea came about to close off the front drain port in the 2007 oil pump. \\ | ||
| + | ==== Testing ==== | ||
| + | 1986-1997 engines drain the gearcase into the crankcase sump area to be scavenged by the sump drain to the oil pump. \\ | ||
| + | 1998-up engines drain the gearcase straight into the oil pump. \\ | ||
| + | However, the 07 pump is preferred as it has bigger scavenge gerotors that carry more oil out of the engine than it's predecessor. \\ | ||
| + | So testing was done on the 2007 pump to determine flow rate. \\ | ||
| + | The pump was tested before and after the modification in Karlings oil pump test rig. \\ | ||
| + | |||
| + | During the flow test, they used a reference volume filled from the scavenge outlet. \\ | ||
| + | The pump was driven at a controlled shaft speed and partially immersed in a low viscosity fluid to resemble the viscosity of hot engine oil. \\ | ||
| + | When the cam chest suction port was allowed to suck air, (sump suction port immersed in liquid), the pump needed 22 seconds to fill the reference volume. \\ | ||
| + | With this mod, (also the internal gerotor kidney was machined to optimize sump port scavenge capacity), pump only needed 13.5 seconds to fill the reference volume. \\ | ||
| + | The testing determined that the 2007 oil pump gained 63% scavenge capacity when the oil pumps cam chest scavenge port was modified (blocked off). \\ | ||
| + | |||
| + | Then the plausible consequence (without modding) was that the engine wetsumps the crankcase to a level that is sufficient to flood the lower part of the cam chest. \\ | ||
| + | Not until then will the full oil pump scavenge capacity be used. \\ | ||
| + | |||
| + | ====== Considerations ====== | ||
| This mod may improve scavenging of the crankcase sump but it is not the end of wet sumping in the engine. \\ | This mod may improve scavenging of the crankcase sump but it is not the end of wet sumping in the engine. \\ | ||
| - | 86-91 engines have an [[techtalk: | + | 1986-1991 engines have an [[techtalk: |
| When the regulator malfunctions, | When the regulator malfunctions, | ||
| Read more about [[techtalk: | Read more about [[techtalk: | ||
| ====== Purpose of this mod ====== | ====== Purpose of this mod ====== | ||
| - | |||
| Several mods have been devised in an attempt to scavenge more oil from 86-90 engines. \\ | Several mods have been devised in an attempt to scavenge more oil from 86-90 engines. \\ | ||
| One of which is the [[techtalk: | One of which is the [[techtalk: | ||
| - | (adapting the engine case to accept a newer style oil pump to an 86-90 engine for better oil control) \\ | + | (adapting the engine case to accept a newer style oil pump to an 1986-1990 engine for better oil control) \\ |
| - | This mod addresses the issue of the cam chest drain port in the newer style pumps that is not required in 86-96 engines. \\ | + | This mod addresses the issue of the cam chest drain port in the newer style pumps that is not required in 1986-1996 engines. \\ |
| - | When using 98-up oil pumps for earlier engines: \\ | + | When using 1998-up oil pumps for earlier engines: \\ |
| - | The concern is since the early engine drains the gearcase into the sump and the 07 pump has an open port in the cam chest; \\ | + | The concern is since the early engine drains the gearcase into the sump and the 2007 pump has an open port in the cam chest; \\ |
| - | You may be adding more aeration into the return system through the gearcase port in the pump. \\ | + | You may be adding more air/aeration into the return system through the gearcase port in the pump. \\ |
| - | (which may lead to an increased risk of cavitation) ((Four Speed of the XLFORUM | + | (which may lead to an increased risk of cavitation) ((Four Speed of the XLFORUM |
| **98-up oil pump gearcase drain ports**: \\ | **98-up oil pump gearcase drain ports**: \\ | ||
| Line 116: | Line 143: | ||
| |The cam chest drain port is the middle thru hole in \\ this pic (07 pump shown). ((photo by Hippysmack))|As the gerotors reside over the cavities, both pieces \\ rotate together. The relative openings between \\ gears stays the same ((photo by Hippysmack))| | |The cam chest drain port is the middle thru hole in \\ this pic (07 pump shown). ((photo by Hippysmack))|As the gerotors reside over the cavities, both pieces \\ rotate together. The relative openings between \\ gears stays the same ((photo by Hippysmack))| | ||
| |{{: | |{{: | ||
| - | |||
| - | ====== Testing ====== | ||
| - | |||
| - | The reason for testing was due to the 07-up pump having a drain port (on top of the pump body) to drain the gearcase. \\ | ||
| - | 86-97 engines drain the gearcase into the crankcase sump area to be scavenged by the sump drain to the oil pump. \\ | ||
| - | 98-up engines drain the gearcase straight into the oil pump. \\ | ||
| - | However, the 07 pump is preferred as it has bigger scavenge gerotors that carry more oil out of the engine than it's predecessor. \\ | ||
| - | |||
| - | The pump was tested before and after the modification in Karlings oil pump test rig. \\ | ||
| - | |||
| - | During the flow test they used a reference volume filled from the scavenge outlet. \\ | ||
| - | The pump was driven at a controlled shaft speed and partially immersed in a low viscosity fluid to resemble the viscosity of hot engine oil. \\ | ||
| ====== Results ====== | ====== Results ====== | ||
| - | + | When the gearcase port was allowed to suck air with the sump port immersed in liquid, the pump needed 22 seconds to fill the reference volume. ((Jorgen of the XLFORUM | |
| - | When the gearcase port was allowed to suck air with the sump port immersed in liquid, the pump needed 22 seconds to fill the reference volume. ((Jorgen of the XLFORUM | + | |
| With the cam chest port blocked off and the internal gerotor kidney machined to optimize sump port scavenge capacity; \\ | With the cam chest port blocked off and the internal gerotor kidney machined to optimize sump port scavenge capacity; \\ | ||
| The pump only needed 13.5 seconds to fill the reference volume. \\ | The pump only needed 13.5 seconds to fill the reference volume. \\ | ||
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| ====== Conclusions from testing ====== | ====== Conclusions from testing ====== | ||
| - | |||
| The results reportedly revealed that this modification increases the return flow from the sump by 63%. \\ | The results reportedly revealed that this modification increases the return flow from the sump by 63%. \\ | ||
| - | This shows how much return capacity that is left on the table using the 07 pump (if there' | + | This shows how much return capacity that is left on the table using the 2007 pump (if there' |
| However, the testing was done in a controlled environment. \\ | However, the testing was done in a controlled environment. \\ | ||
| It is also assuming that the cam chest port in the pump is either full of oil or full of air during normal installed operation. \\ | It is also assuming that the cam chest port in the pump is either full of oil or full of air during normal installed operation. \\ | ||
| This will never be true in the real world. \\ | This will never be true in the real world. \\ | ||
| - | In an 86-90 engine; \\ | + | In a 1986-1990 engine; \\ |
| - | Crankcase pressure, cam and pinion gears will end up dropping oil mist and splash oil into the cam chest port of the 98-up oil pumps. \\ | + | Crankcase pressure, cam and pinion gears will end up dropping oil mist and splash oil into the cam chest port of the 1998-up oil pumps. \\ |
| - | It may not be a steady supply of oil but the cam chest port would never be dry. \\ | + | It may not be a steady supply of oil but the cam chest port would never be completely |
| - | The pressure regulator in the 86-91 engine | + | The pressure regulator in the 1986-1991 engines |
| - | Some of this will also splash get splash into the cam chest drain port. \\ | + | Some of this will also splash |
| - | The regulator is notorious for leaking oil into the gearcase as well when not activated. \\ | + | The regulator is notorious for leaking oil into the gearcase as well (when not activated |
| - | So the results, even though interesting, | + | So the results, even though interesting, |
| However, the Karling mod will eliminate the chance of cavitation in the oil pump (that' | However, the Karling mod will eliminate the chance of cavitation in the oil pump (that' | ||
