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| techtalk:ref:tools023 [2020/04/28 23:32] – [Chasing Threads] hippysmack | techtalk:ref:tools023 [2024/01/23 01:43] (current) – hippysmack | ||
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| - | ====== REF: General-MSR 36 ====== | + | ====== REF: Tools & Fasteners |
| ====== Warped or Damaged Thread Repair ====== | ====== Warped or Damaged Thread Repair ====== | ||
| - | + | \\ | |
| ====== Cross Threading ====== | ====== Cross Threading ====== | ||
| - | The actual failure mechanism of a drain plug: ((DR Dick of the XLFORUM | + | The actual failure mechanism of a drain plug: ((DR Dick of the XLFORUM |
| - | |{{techtalk: | + | |{{techtalk: |
| - | * So when you loosen the plug the upper partially fractured (cast alum don't like flexing) threads will "move back in position" | + | * So when you loosen the plug the upper partially fractured (cast alum don't like flexing) threads will "move back in position" |
| - | * After a few ins and outs the upper threads let loose from the back and forth flexing. ((DR Dick of the XLFORUM | + | * After a few ins and outs the upper threads let loose from the back and forth flexing. ((DR Dick of the XLFORUM |
| * Where upon: | * Where upon: | ||
| - | * "My plug stripped on the way out". or "It just spins, won't get tight, won't come out". or "I didn't even put the juice to it, it just never got tight" | + | * "My plug stripped on the way out". or "It just spins, won't get tight, won't come out". or "I didn't even put the juice to it, it just never got tight" |
| ====== Thread Repair ====== | ====== Thread Repair ====== | ||
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| ==== Using taps / dies to chase debris out of the threads ==== | ==== Using taps / dies to chase debris out of the threads ==== | ||
| - | |||
| You may find, when chasing threads, that the threads are warped also. \\ | You may find, when chasing threads, that the threads are warped also. \\ | ||
| This is common on used fasteners as normal or over torque can warp them. \\ | This is common on used fasteners as normal or over torque can warp them. \\ | ||
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| And chasing them with standard size taps / dies simply widens that clearance to standard sizes. \\ | And chasing them with standard size taps / dies simply widens that clearance to standard sizes. \\ | ||
| - | **Standard tap and dies** have sharp cutting edges. | + | **Standard tap and dies** have sharp cutting edges. |
| - | If the threads have not been warped or damaged; \\ | + | If the threads have not been warped or damaged, a die will cut through and remove sealants on bolt threads. \\ |
| - | A die will cut through and remove sealants on bolt threads. \\ | + | Likewise, a tap will cut through and remove |
| - | Likewise, a tap will cut through and remove sealants | + | There are some holes, however, that are purposely tapped undersize at the factory. \\ |
| + | Running a standard tap in those holes opens the holes up. \\ | ||
| + | (also the low quality taps from the do-it-yourself store are not held to the cutting tolerance that real ground thread H or L limit taps possess) \\ | ||
| + | |||
| + | * Some factory undersize tapped holes on 1957-1976 motors: ((Dr Dick of the XLFORUM https:// | ||
| + | * Oil pump studs | ||
| + | * Cylinder base studs | ||
| + | * Rear motor mount studs | ||
| + | * Tool box stud | ||
| **Roll form tap and dies** have rounded cutting edges. \\ | **Roll form tap and dies** have rounded cutting edges. \\ | ||
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| See Chasing Threads below. \\ | See Chasing Threads below. \\ | ||
| + | |||
| ===== Chasing Threads ===== | ===== Chasing Threads ===== | ||
| * Clean threads are essential in a achieving proper torque specs. \\ Torque specs are designed to tighten to a known point that is before the bolt would break and/or before the piece your working on gives or cracks under pressure. \\ (also given the composite of the bolts) \\ The practice of proper torque on a bolt / hole can also stress new threads. | * Clean threads are essential in a achieving proper torque specs. \\ Torque specs are designed to tighten to a known point that is before the bolt would break and/or before the piece your working on gives or cracks under pressure. \\ (also given the composite of the bolts) \\ The practice of proper torque on a bolt / hole can also stress new threads. | ||
| * Individual threads on a bolt or a threaded hole could have been warped due to material composite, heat, initial torque. \\ (and pressure applied during (previous) normal operation. \\ Warp-age could have been been increased from too much initial torque and / or uneven initial torque all around on the piece that had been installed. | * Individual threads on a bolt or a threaded hole could have been warped due to material composite, heat, initial torque. \\ (and pressure applied during (previous) normal operation. \\ Warp-age could have been been increased from too much initial torque and / or uneven initial torque all around on the piece that had been installed. | ||
| * That said, these bolts and threaded holes were initially threaded (internal or external respectively) with taps and dies. \\ Consequently, | * That said, these bolts and threaded holes were initially threaded (internal or external respectively) with taps and dies. \\ Consequently, | ||
| - | * Roll Form Taps- used to pressure form threads in softer material like aluminum. \\ Roll form taps are used to " | + | * Roll Form Taps- used to pressure form threads in softer material like aluminum. \\ Roll form taps are used to " |
| - | {{: | + | {{: |
| * While chasing the bolts / holes you will experience metal shavings coming out of the holes and down the bolts. \\ This is normal and how much depends how much damage has been applied to them. \\ You are in fact re-shaping these to back to their original shape. \\ There really isn't much reason to replace a bolt other than cosmetics or rot unless it cannot be re-threaded or has been overly torque stressed. \\ This is a condition in which, on the way to final torque, the bolt begins to stretch or twist from it's protruding center. \\ (but not threading any longer into the hole as Evo cylinder head bolts can do) ((hippysmack from the XLFORUM)) | * While chasing the bolts / holes you will experience metal shavings coming out of the holes and down the bolts. \\ This is normal and how much depends how much damage has been applied to them. \\ You are in fact re-shaping these to back to their original shape. \\ There really isn't much reason to replace a bolt other than cosmetics or rot unless it cannot be re-threaded or has been overly torque stressed. \\ This is a condition in which, on the way to final torque, the bolt begins to stretch or twist from it's protruding center. \\ (but not threading any longer into the hole as Evo cylinder head bolts can do) ((hippysmack from the XLFORUM)) | ||
| * There are different methods to tapping / chasing holes depending on the situation. | * There are different methods to tapping / chasing holes depending on the situation. | ||
| * A through hole is what it says, it goes in one side and out the other of the piece you are working on. \\ Don't stop turning the tap until it has gone in far enough to reach past the bottom, given the chamfered end of the tap itself. | * A through hole is what it says, it goes in one side and out the other of the piece you are working on. \\ Don't stop turning the tap until it has gone in far enough to reach past the bottom, given the chamfered end of the tap itself. | ||
| * A blind hole is simply one that does not go through all the way like a 3/4" thick piece of metal with a 3/8" deep hole in it. \\ Once you run the tap into it, you can't see the bottom , thus it is a blind hole. \\ Chasing a blind hole can be more tedious. \\ As the tap reaches farther in, you aren't quite sure where it will bottom out so you have to use caution when the tap starts turning tighter. \\ Turning past the bottom can end up cracking your piece or breaking the tap off in the hole. \\ Turn in about a quarter turn, back out a half turn, run it in until it stops or gets resistance, go in about another quarter turn and back out all the way. \\ This helps gather the shavings/ trash into the flutes of the tap and away from the threads- which creates resistance. \\ Clean the tap, blow out the hole of all metal shavings/ trash/ gasket material, then go back in. | * A blind hole is simply one that does not go through all the way like a 3/4" thick piece of metal with a 3/8" deep hole in it. \\ Once you run the tap into it, you can't see the bottom , thus it is a blind hole. \\ Chasing a blind hole can be more tedious. \\ As the tap reaches farther in, you aren't quite sure where it will bottom out so you have to use caution when the tap starts turning tighter. \\ Turning past the bottom can end up cracking your piece or breaking the tap off in the hole. \\ Turn in about a quarter turn, back out a half turn, run it in until it stops or gets resistance, go in about another quarter turn and back out all the way. \\ This helps gather the shavings/ trash into the flutes of the tap and away from the threads- which creates resistance. \\ Clean the tap, blow out the hole of all metal shavings/ trash/ gasket material, then go back in. | ||
| - | * You'll get a feel for it and when it hits bottom, you'll feel that to be harder or more of an end of the journey feeling. \\ All the while your using cutting oil which can gather in the bottom of the hole and or mix with any trash in the hole. \\ Truthfully this is the same procedure for tapping any hole as far as touch and feel. \\ If this is not cleaned out before going back in with the tap, it can hydro lock ((Tom from the XLFORUM | + | * You'll get a feel for it and when it hits bottom, you'll feel that to be harder or more of an end of the journey feeling. \\ All the while your using cutting oil which can gather in the bottom of the hole and or mix with any trash in the hole. \\ Truthfully this is the same procedure for tapping any hole as far as touch and feel. \\ If this is not cleaned out before going back in with the tap, it can hydro lock ((Tom from the XLFORUM |
| - | * You can send a pin needle or the like down to the bottom of the hole to see if there is any embedded crap at the bottom. ((ReddTigger from the XLFORUM | + | * You can send a pin needle or the like down to the bottom of the hole to see if there is any embedded crap at the bottom. ((ReddTigger from the XLFORUM |
| + | |||
| + | | Chasing cam cover threads. ((photo by AnaChris of the XLFORUM https:// | ||
| + | |{{: | ||
| ===== Thread File ===== | ===== Thread File ===== | ||
| * This tool is a cross between a tap, a die and a file. | * This tool is a cross between a tap, a die and a file. | ||
| * The end part can be used to put down inside a hole and sort of scrape clean the thread of the same pitch as the tool. | * The end part can be used to put down inside a hole and sort of scrape clean the thread of the same pitch as the tool. | ||
| - | * The side can be used like a file on damaged bolt threads to get them back to form. \\ On a special thread like the end of a crankshaft that has a large diameter fine pitched thread that no standard die will fit. \\ Use a thread file with the same number of teeth per inch. ((Hopper from the XLFORUM | + | * The side can be used like a file on damaged bolt threads to get them back to form. \\ On a special thread like the end of a crankshaft that has a large diameter fine pitched thread that no standard die will fit. \\ Use a thread file with the same number of teeth per inch. ((Hopper from the XLFORUM |
| ====== Installing New Threaded Inserts ====== | ====== Installing New Threaded Inserts ====== | ||
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| ===== Using a Drill Guide ===== | ===== Using a Drill Guide ===== | ||
| - | |||
| For using a hand drill, it is especially helpful to use a jig to help you line up the bit and keep a 90° line of site while drilling. \\ | For using a hand drill, it is especially helpful to use a jig to help you line up the bit and keep a 90° line of site while drilling. \\ | ||
| It's difficult to watch the drilled hole and hold the drill vertically and horizontally correct all at the same time. \\ | It's difficult to watch the drilled hole and hold the drill vertically and horizontally correct all at the same time. \\ | ||
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| A jig (or guide) may come in a kit with the insert to help with that or they can be purchased or machined separately. \\ | A jig (or guide) may come in a kit with the insert to help with that or they can be purchased or machined separately. \\ | ||
| - | {{techtalk: | + | {{techtalk: |
| It's basically a sleeve with the correct size hole in it for the drill bit you're using. \\ | It's basically a sleeve with the correct size hole in it for the drill bit you're using. \\ | ||
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| **Below are some examples of drill guides** (can be clamped on or held by hand depending on the certain guide and material used on): \\ | **Below are some examples of drill guides** (can be clamped on or held by hand depending on the certain guide and material used on): \\ | ||
| - | |This drill guide was machined for use on a cylinder stud hole reair ((photos by ReddTigger of the XLFORUM | + | |This drill guide was machined for use on a cylinder stud hole reair ((photos by ReddTigger of the XLFORUM |
| |{{techtalk: | |{{techtalk: | ||
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| You can also remove the set screw and use the collar as a drill guide. \\ | You can also remove the set screw and use the collar as a drill guide. \\ | ||
| - | | Drill Bit Stop Collar ((photo by Graywolf of the XLFORUM | + | | Drill Bit Stop Collar ((photo by Graywolf of the XLFORUM |
| - | |{{techtalk: | + | |{{techtalk: |
| - | ===== Helicoil Inserts ===== | + | |
| + | ===== Helicoil Inserts ===== | ||
| * Engineering supply, auto parts and hardware places sell several kinds of insert kits. \\(I.E. Helicoil, Keensert, Timsert etc) | * Engineering supply, auto parts and hardware places sell several kinds of insert kits. \\(I.E. Helicoil, Keensert, Timsert etc) | ||
| * A helicoil is a small stainless alloy steel spiral. \\ The inner diameter is the right thread to match the original bolt. \\ The outside diameter has a larger thread and the kit has the right size drill bit included for the OD pre-drll size. | * A helicoil is a small stainless alloy steel spiral. \\ The inner diameter is the right thread to match the original bolt. \\ The outside diameter has a larger thread and the kit has the right size drill bit included for the OD pre-drll size. | ||
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| * Wipe off excess Loctite. \\ Grease the bolt so it wont stick to the loctite, and screw it in to make sure all is good. | * Wipe off excess Loctite. \\ Grease the bolt so it wont stick to the loctite, and screw it in to make sure all is good. | ||
| * Then take it out and let the loctite cure overnight. | * Then take it out and let the loctite cure overnight. | ||
| - | * This repair actually makes a stronger thread than an original aluminium thread. | + | * This repair actually makes a stronger thread than an original aluminium thread. |
| ===== Time-Sert Inserts ===== | ===== Time-Sert Inserts ===== | ||
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| ====== More from Xlforum Threads: ====== | ====== More from Xlforum Threads: ====== | ||
| - | |||
| * idahopilot: Is it necessary to " | * idahopilot: Is it necessary to " | ||
| * capttawes: No it's not really necessary but sometimes those accessories have a build up of chrome, paint or powder coat that get in the threads making it tight and easy to cross the threads. If you find it necessary or run into a problem where you've stripped/ | * capttawes: No it's not really necessary but sometimes those accessories have a build up of chrome, paint or powder coat that get in the threads making it tight and easy to cross the threads. If you find it necessary or run into a problem where you've stripped/ | ||
| * Folkie: I generally try out a nut on a threaded stud of a part or try out a screw in a threaded hole. You can soon tell if the threads are OK. Sometimes just turning the nut or screw back and forth a few times sorts out any roughness. If not, a pass with a die or tap does the trick. If you've got adjustable dies and you use a die holder (I often don't for this sort of thing, just hold it in my fingers), make sure you haven' | * Folkie: I generally try out a nut on a threaded stud of a part or try out a screw in a threaded hole. You can soon tell if the threads are OK. Sometimes just turning the nut or screw back and forth a few times sorts out any roughness. If not, a pass with a die or tap does the trick. If you've got adjustable dies and you use a die holder (I often don't for this sort of thing, just hold it in my fingers), make sure you haven' | ||
| * Another tip for cleaning out the chrome flashing on new parts is to start the tap at the backside of the hole where you have clean threads. This will allow you to start the tap properly and keep you from messing up the angle of the hole. Once started properly with some lube on it it should just screw right through the hole to the front side and clean out the excess chrome in the threads. If it feels like it is harder to thread in than a bolt in clean threads, STOP!! Back out and try again and doublecheck that you have the proper thread pitch on your tap. | * Another tip for cleaning out the chrome flashing on new parts is to start the tap at the backside of the hole where you have clean threads. This will allow you to start the tap properly and keep you from messing up the angle of the hole. Once started properly with some lube on it it should just screw right through the hole to the front side and clean out the excess chrome in the threads. If it feels like it is harder to thread in than a bolt in clean threads, STOP!! Back out and try again and doublecheck that you have the proper thread pitch on your tap. | ||
| - | * To check the thread pitch get a thread pitch gauge and check it against the bolt that is supposed to go in the hole. These look like a feeler gauge full of combs and you lay each comb against the threads until you find the one that matches the threads on the bolt that is supposed to go in the hole. Thread gauges are cheap, pick one up and go to ACE Hardware and practice against bolts with a known thread pitch to see how they work. ((http:// | + | * To check the thread pitch get a thread pitch gauge and check it against the bolt that is supposed to go in the hole. These look like a feeler gauge full of combs and you lay each comb against the threads until you find the one that matches the threads on the bolt that is supposed to go in the hole. Thread gauges are cheap, pick one up and go to ACE Hardware and practice against bolts with a known thread pitch to see how they work. ((https://www.xlforum.net/ |
